I think people with large, far-reaching platforms need to start talking about how anti-fascism is a basic human thing, and that if you aren't against fascism, you are against humanity
If this is controversial to you I dunno what to tell you bub
@Gargron @ravenna In fact, I bet you don't know, as the majority of antifa supporters that true fascism poses his roots on radical socialism, do you? Do you even know what the "Manifesto of San Sepolcro" is? Do you know that in 1919 fascist were fighting for universal suffrage, socialization of economy, minimum wage; are those things "against humanity"?
so, if there is no fascism existing why do we need to talk about anti-fascism?
if there is anti-fascists what else they are oposing then #fascism?
Do you believe fascism is an ideology?
Do you believe this ideology can adapt to current circumstances?
Who has the highest interest in branding anti-fascists as terrorists and such?
...sry all rethoric question, but I guess my point is clear?
I don't think anti-fascism makes any sens as of today.
They are fighiting a long dead phantom, I don't know why.
Yes, I do believe that 1919 fascism is a legit ideology.
I believe what is today labeled as "fascist" has nothing to do with actual fascism.
I don't see antifa as terrorists, I don't care about USA government branding them as terrorist, mainly because I'm not american.
With that said, I really don't define myself as fascist.
This is all part of fascism!
If antifa doesn't make much sense in your opinion, do you suggest they should stop or should they change their strategy.
If changing strategy, how would an apropriated strategy against fascism incl. racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry.... would look like?
@paulfree14 @ravenna @Gargron Those are not part of fascism. Maybe they are part of your distorted and framed view of fascism, but I don't think it corresponds to (atleast mine) definition of fascism.
If antifa purpose is fighting against any form of discrimination, perhaps they should call themselves "Anti-discriminations squad" or something like that. I don't care about what their strategy should be, because I don't really care about those "issues". My concerns are elsewhere.
Meanwhile, you, sitting here trying to say you've had "many arguments" trying to argue that it's not as simple as it actually freakin is
Yeah, get the hell out of my notifications, jerkoff
Shut the hell you up gross piece of shit
I politely disagree.
As I said earlier:
"#Fascism is a complex and exclusively Italian blend of socialism, anti-capitalism, strong statism and pragmatism, and it is what, to some extents was implemented in Italy by Mussolini, expecially with the Republic of Salò."
Textbook definition, not the fake distorted definition imposed by anglo-american imperialism.
@paulfree14 @ravenna @gabriele or here’s another definition by the people who literally document the English language: http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095811414http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095811414
@gerhildt @ravenna Look, I don't care about the anglo-american definition, because it poses its roots on ignorance and misconceptions. Unfortunately, it is the definition most of the world mistakenly uses, cause cultural imperialism, so I guess I have to adapt.
(I'll send you my sources when I found some english version of what I have)
@gabriele @ravenna here’s the definition of fascism according to Mussolini himself: https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/mussolini-fascism.asphttps://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/mussolini-fascism.asp
The violent nationalism an militarism.
The cult of personality and centralization of power are not only bad, but also invalid in 2017. And that's why fascism will never come back.
We had that. there are the historic meaning, and how ppl use it now to describe an ideology.
(now I'm out for a while. watching whats happening in catalonia)
I think you are talking about bigotry and prejudice, so lets be specific instead of attributing those to any political philosophies.
Nobody has said anything about these problems being non-existent. They are bigger problems for some than for others, and those less affected will naturally feel less passionately about it.
I really do understand how and why you feel strongly about it. I have my own set of problems that piss me off and/or makes me want to cry.
They're not about bigotry and prejudice as much as lack of regard for fellow humans in general in my case.
I'd love to ascribe all of my problems to some all-encompassing category that defines my enemies.. but the truth is there are no evil people or ideas; there is only miscommunication, ignorance and neglect.
Words have meaning. "Fascism" has a specific meaning. You can call a hammer a toaster, but that doesn't mean you can make breakfast with it.
If you think a word is insufficiently defined, then ask for refinement; just dismissing the argument sounds like you're defending the status quo.
Fascism is alive and well in the US and Europe.
Except that what you call fascism has nothing to do with actual fascism. It's not cool to miscall things, how would you feel if I misgender you?
I gave my definition many times today, not gonna repeat again. The mainstream anglo-american imposed definition has been argued by many, expecially historians, expecially italians.
Follow the discussion if you want to know more, I don't think there is more to add to what has been already said.
You: "Anything nowadays can be labeled as "fascist" making antifascism is worthless."
Also you: "what you call fascism has nothing to do with actual fascism."
Which is it? How do you know what I'm calling fascism?
You keep trying to take away the words, rather than seeking clarification.
It's almost like you don't want people fighting back against fascism.
@woozle I would like to see people fighting back to actual and far bigger threats like capitalism. Unlike fascism, it is real today.
What you probably call "fascist" are white supremacist, racist, violent nationalists and xenophobia. Not a single of those is a trait of the political philosphy and praxis of fascism, which by the way died in 1945.
I don't see you wanting a peaceful debate with me, you will probably:
1) call me a fascist;
2) insult me
3) finally block me
I hope I'm wrong.
@woozle Lol, I peacefully and reasonably dropped about 50 toots on this topic today, I'm just... tired.
I know that my definition is used by a thin slice of people, but I do feel it's very accurate, expecially if you seek "a spefic meaning".
The commonly accepted definition is a wrong label given by american since WW2 to all the Axis powers, Germany, Italy and Japan, but only Italy was actaully ruled by fascist. Then they won the war and the misconception was imposed via cultural imperialism.
Anyway, it's not a matter of definition.
While you fight against an insignificant minority (of "fascist", or more accurately bigots and reactionaries), which grows hateful, radicalizes, and fights you back, #plutocrats keep their power and exploit ALL of us. This is what really concerns me. This is why I do not support antifascism.
This doesn't mean I support "fascism", or bigotry, or xenophobia. I just prefer to focus my energy to fight actual threat.
fascism/capitalism Show more
Point is, I really don't think antifascist are capable of fighting both, plus, you don't actually have to fight bigots (what you mislabel as "fascist").
On the opposite, more often than not, antifa prove themselves to be the thoughtpolice of plutocrats, the "stormtroopers of the Neoliberal War Party".
Want proof? Many examples of what I just said, can be found in this recent article I discovered this morning.
fascism/capitalism Show more
Bigotry is not the same as fascism. Fascists want to control society, and are willing to lie about their motives in order to gain that control.
It's arguable that they are victims, but they have chosen to blame the wrong people and to ruthlessly act against the people they are blaming.
They are in many ways a tool of the plutonomy -- they do distract us from the systemic problem of capitalism, but they're no less a real problem themselves.