♀Meryl S. Pumpkins⚧ is a user on sanguine.merylscarlett.info. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse.
♀Meryl S. Pumpkins⚧ @ravenna

I think people with large, far-reaching platforms need to start talking about how anti-fascism is a basic human thing, and that if you aren't against fascism, you are against humanity

If this is controversial to you I dunno what to tell you bub

@ravenna @Gargron Problem is: the definition of "fascism" is too broad and vague. Anything nowadays can be labeled as "fascist" making antifascism is worthless.

In my opinion (I'm Italian, fascism is my own history), fascism died in 1945, there is no point in beating a literally dead horse.

@Gargron @ravenna In fact, I bet you don't know, as the majority of antifa supporters that true fascism poses his roots on radical socialism, do you? Do you even know what the "Manifesto of San Sepolcro" is? Do you know that in 1919 fascist were fighting for universal suffrage, socialization of economy, minimum wage; are those things "against humanity"?

@ravenna @Gargron @gabriele

so, if there is no fascism existing why do we need to talk about anti-fascism?

if there is anti-fascists what else they are oposing then #fascism?

Do you believe fascism is an ideology?

Do you believe this ideology can adapt to current circumstances?

Who has the highest interest in branding anti-fascists as terrorists and such?

...sry all rethoric question, but I guess my point is clear?

@paulfree14 @ravenna @Gargron

I don't think anti-fascism makes any sens as of today.

They are fighiting a long dead phantom, I don't know why.

Yes, I do believe that 1919 fascism is a legit ideology.

I believe what is today labeled as "fascist" has nothing to do with actual fascism.

I don't see antifa as terrorists, I don't care about USA government branding them as terrorist, mainly because I'm not american.

With that said, I really don't define myself as fascist.

@ravenna @Gargron @gabriele
so racism, homophobia, bigotry, sexism....is not existing anymore?

This is all part of fascism!

If antifa doesn't make much sense in your opinion, do you suggest they should stop or should they change their strategy.
If changing strategy, how would an apropriated strategy against fascism incl. racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry.... would look like?

@paulfree14 @ravenna @Gargron Those are not part of fascism. Maybe they are part of your distorted and framed view of fascism, but I don't think it corresponds to (atleast mine) definition of fascism.

If antifa purpose is fighting against any form of discrimination, perhaps they should call themselves "Anti-discriminations squad" or something like that. I don't care about what their strategy should be, because I don't really care about those "issues". My concerns are elsewhere.

@ravenna @gabriele

is this implying you don't have a problem with what they do but rather with and how they use the word fascism?

@paulfree14 @ravenna Yes, that's exactly the point!

I also think I can generally agree and be friend with most of antifa people out there.

@gabriele @paulfree14 There is nobody misapplying the label "fascist"

This is yet another logical fallacy being spread by nazis themselves

@ravenna @paulfree14

What can I say, I discussed this topic extensively today, I brought many arguments to the table, if you still come up with this, all I can think is that you are either ignorant or dishonest.

@gabriele @paulfree14 I'm dishonest? The transgender women who has years of experience with abusive people, including fascists, who knows wtf fascist are and how they talk is being dishonest

Meanwhile, you, sitting here trying to say you've had "many arguments" trying to argue that it's not as simple as it actually freakin is

Yeah, get the hell out of my notifications, jerkoff

@ravenna @paulfree14
Perhaps people are abusive with you cause you're this toxic? For the 100th time today, transphobia is not a trait of fascism, and I dare you to prove me wrong.

If someone that you mistakenly consider a fascist harasses you doesn't mean that fascism is about transphobia.

@ravenna @paulfree14

Excuse me, your article is very interesting but unfortunately it doesn't mention the word "fascism" at all, not even once.

@ravenna @paulfree14

I politely disagree.

As I said earlier:

"#Fascism is a complex and exclusively Italian blend of socialism, anti-capitalism, strong statism and pragmatism, and it is what, to some extents was implemented in Italy by Mussolini, expecially with the Republic of Salò."

Textbook definition, not the fake distorted definition imposed by anglo-american imperialism.

@gerhildt @ravenna @paulfree14 Just becase it's written on some random website doesn't mean it's true. Many historians disagree with that definition.

@gabriele @ravenna @paulfree14 cool but like provide sources maybe? Quoting yourself doesn’t count lol

@gerhildt @ravenna Look, I don't care about the anglo-american definition, because it poses its roots on ignorance and misconceptions. Unfortunately, it is the definition most of the world mistakenly uses, cause cultural imperialism, so I guess I have to adapt.

(I'll send you my sources when I found some english version of what I have)

@gabriele @gerhildt Nah bro, I'm actually blocking your fascist history revisionsim ass right now because I don' t have time to argue with people this dense, dangerous and disgusting

@gabriele @gerhildt @paulfree14 Show me all your sources for your history revisionism about an ideology that causes genocide

@gabriele @paulfree14

If you are a fascist, and bend the reality of fascism to fit some screwed up fake definition of socialism that doesn't actually exist, you deserve the guillotine. Full-stop. You are against humanity, you are against human decency, and you have no place in society.

@ravenna @paulfree14

Luckily I'm not a fascist, but I would have no problems in admitting if I were.

Don't worry, sleep thight, fascism is dead since 1945, you don't need mass extermination.

@gabriele @paulfree14 Judging by your profile, you don't even live in the US, which is currently fascist. I reiterate that you need to shut the hell up and go back to talking about things that you actually know something about (probably nothing)

@ravenna @paulfree14 Lol, I'm Italian, the nation that invented fascism!

So you actaully think that Trump is a fascist? AH! Cool story.

@gabriele @paulfree14 "cool story"

You mean observable fact

I don't know what's more hilarious, you not knowing what fascism really is, or trying to argue as if fascism is somehow good

@ravenna @paulfree14

If I thought fascism was good... I would be a fascist (SPOILER: I'm not).

But we clearly have different definitions of "fascism".

@paulfree14

The violent nationalism an militarism.

While I really like the patriotic and socialist stances of #fascism, both as theorized in 1919 and implemented with #Mussolini, I think the excessive exaltation of violence and nation is really bad.

The cult of personality and centralization of power are not only bad, but also invalid in 2017. And that's why fascism will never come back.

@gabriele @ravenna
I join this discussion somewhen later again.
Just wanting to point out that you Gabriele refuse to discuss on a basis of fascism as a defenition of a specific ideology.

We had that. there are the historic meaning, and how ppl use it now to describe an ideology.

(now I'm out for a while. watching whats happening in catalonia)

@ravenna @gabriele @paulfree14

I think you are talking about bigotry and prejudice, so lets be specific instead of attributing those to any political philosophies.

Nobody has said anything about these problems being non-existent. They are bigger problems for some than for others, and those less affected will naturally feel less passionately about it.

@sudoreboot

I love you, really. You speak my own mind better then myself. 😀

But that @ravenna blocked me, cause she can't stand a peaceful debate where I never disrespected her, not even remotely. So sad.

@gabriele @ravenna

Why, thank you!

Yeah it's sad. Some people have a lot more of those pesky chemical imbalances that often gets in the way of reason.

Catch me on a bad day and I can be quite the stubborn idiot myself.

@paulfree14 @gabriele @ravenna

I really do understand how and why you feel strongly about it. I have my own set of problems that piss me off and/or makes me want to cry.

They're not about bigotry and prejudice as much as lack of regard for fellow humans in general in my case.

I'd love to ascribe all of my problems to some all-encompassing category that defines my enemies.. but the truth is there are no evil people or ideas; there is only miscommunication, ignorance and neglect.

@gabriele ( @ravenna @Gargron )

Words have meaning. "Fascism" has a specific meaning. You can call a hammer a toaster, but that doesn't mean you can make breakfast with it.

If you think a word is insufficiently defined, then ask for refinement; just dismissing the argument sounds like you're defending the status quo.

Fascism is alive and well in the US and Europe.

@woozle

Except that what you call fascism has nothing to do with actual fascism. It's not cool to miscall things, how would you feel if I misgender you?

I gave my definition many times today, not gonna repeat again. The mainstream anglo-american imposed definition has been argued by many, expecially historians, expecially italians.

Follow the discussion if you want to know more, I don't think there is more to add to what has been already said.

@gabriele

You: "Anything nowadays can be labeled as "fascist" making antifascism is worthless."

Also you: "what you call fascism has nothing to do with actual fascism."

Which is it? How do you know what I'm calling fascism?

You keep trying to take away the words, rather than seeking clarification.

It's almost like you don't want people fighting back against fascism.

@woozle I would like to see people fighting back to actual and far bigger threats like capitalism. Unlike fascism, it is real today.

What you probably call "fascist" are white supremacist, racist, violent nationalists and xenophobia. Not a single of those is a trait of the political philosphy and praxis of fascism, which by the way died in 1945.

I don't see you wanting a peaceful debate with me, you will probably:
1) call me a fascist;
2) insult me
3) finally block me
I hope I'm wrong.

@gabriele

Your definition of fascism is not the commonly accepted definition.

...but I don't think you're looking for reasoned discussion; I think you just want to shut it down.

@woozle Lol, I peacefully and reasonably dropped about 50 toots on this topic today, I'm just... tired.

I know that my definition is used by a thin slice of people, but I do feel it's very accurate, expecially if you seek "a spefic meaning".

The commonly accepted definition is a wrong label given by american since WW2 to all the Axis powers, Germany, Italy and Japan, but only Italy was actaully ruled by fascist. Then they won the war and the misconception was imposed via cultural imperialism.

@woozle

Anyway, it's not a matter of definition.

While you fight against an insignificant minority (of "fascist", or more accurately bigots and reactionaries), which grows hateful, radicalizes, and fights you back, #plutocrats keep their power and exploit ALL of us. This is what really concerns me. This is why I do not support antifascism.

This doesn't mean I support "fascism", or bigotry, or xenophobia. I just prefer to focus my energy to fight actual threat.

fascism/capitalism Show more

fascism/capitalism Show more

fascism/capitalism Show more